A lifetime of learning: From the fast lane to chairing the Board

We wanted to start out by asking you about your path to becoming a CPA.
I gave a talk at a high school recently, and I started off by saying that at age 19 I was a college dropout. I’d thought I would follow in my dad's footsteps, he worked with people with disabilities. I started down that path and went to community college for about a year and a half. Each quarter the college had us volunteer someplace, and through that volunteer work, I discovered I didn't want to do that for a career. When I dropped out of school, I was working in restaurants. Later I saw friends of mine open businesses—a restaurant, a bar, etc. Some of them made it and some of them didn't. I couldn’t help wondering: what’s making the difference? I thought it had to do somehow with the money. Through that, I ended up going back to college and majored in accounting. Math had always been kind of easy for me. My mother had always worked as a bookkeeper, and my grandfather was a PA doing municipal audits. So, some of it was in the genes, but a lot of it was just watching people open businesses, and wondering, why do some succeed and some fail? What can you do to make it more likely to succeed?

I did my undergraduate degree in Business Administration back in Tennessee at Belmont University. I liked the tax side more than audit. And all my tax professors had law degrees. So, I decided I also wanted to go to law school. My wife was from Salem originally. She said she wanted to go home. Willamette University in Salem was the solution. One day after my second year at Willamette Law School, I saw Mark Mueller, who was a neighbor of ours. Mark was out on a bike ride with his kids, and he learned I’d just taken the CPA exam. He called me on Monday and asked me to come down to his firm to have lunch. I just thought it was a neighbor calling to have lunch! Next thing I know, I'm going up and down the hall meeting all the partners. I started there as an intern—went from intern to managing partner. I’ve been here 38 years this May.

We read that you took and passed the bar exam, the CPA exam, and became a father all within 10 weeks during the summer of 1987, is that right?
Yes, I took the CPA exam for the first time after my second year of law school. I had four days between my last law school exam and the CPA exam. I crammed for four days and passed two parts and got scores of 50s with everything else. I passed Business Law (since I’d just finished two years of law school) and Practice. There was a lot of tax on the exam, and I had taken quite a few tax classes in law school. And then the following May, after I finished my last law school tests. I took the CPA exam and passed the remaining parts. My son’s due date was graduation day, just a few days later.

They had a law school graduation party on Friday night, and my wife and I attended. There was a good band and we stayed and listened to them, went home about midnight. At 5:30 in the morning my wife is shaking me, saying, “we gotta go, we gotta go to the hospital.” My son was born at 9:51 that morning. Graduation was the next day. Then I took the bar exam ten weeks later. And passed!

How then did you get involved with OSCPA?
I first joined the Taxation and the Estate Planning Committees. (John has also served on the Audit, Budget, Joint CPA-Attorney, Legislative Action, Legislative Policy, Nominations, and Not-for-Profit Committees, in addition to the Board of Directors.) I just wanted to get involved.

How has that involvement with OSCPA affected your career? 
The first thing that stands out is the people I’ve met. When I was younger, there would be other older people on these committees. You’d get to know them and how they progressed through their careers. It’s a tremendous learning experience. Now, I am one of the older members, and I like doing what I can to help the younger folks learn and develop.

What insights have you gained since you joined the OSCPA Board of Directors?
You learn a lot more about what's going on in the profession and some of the challenges and opportunities that confront the profession today. As OSCPA Vice Chair, you're the liaison between the OSCPA and the Oregon Board of Accountancy. I was in that role when Martin Pittioni had just returned to the BOA as Executive Director, and it’s been really nice to see the relationship between OSCPA and BOA become the collaborative one that it is today. Streamlining the process to licensure has been awesome and so important for the profession as we seek to fill the pipeline.

As OSCPA Chair-Elect, I’ve attended one AICPA Council meeting so far, and there you are in the room with true leaders of the profession. There is a lot of concern about the future of people coming in and joining the profession, asking what kind of barriers are we having that prevent people from joining the profession? And even if they do join, are we creating issues that make them later want to leave the profession and do something else? The 150-hour rule comes up as a frequent scapegoat for some of our pipeline issues; I believe there are other concerns as well.

Do you think firms know what those things are?
Work-life balance is a big piece and firms have to be aware of this. Also, people want to feel like they're getting the type of work they want to work on, work where they feel engaged with what they are doing. Sometimes what they’re asked to do doesn’t hold their interest. And then I think folks of my generation like to brag about the 70, 80, 90-hour weeks they worked during tax season. That doesn't help us at all.

What advice would you give people who are thinking about involvement in OSCPA?
You know, I come from a generation where usually one person in the family was working and the other spouse stayed home with kids and family. I could go to out-of-state conferences, meetings—that was something that we did a lot of, you know, 30, 40 years ago. Today I know that I’ve got partners at our firm where both spouses work, kids are very involved in sports and other activities, and there just is not a lot of extra time to spend on other things. So, you do what you can do, what you actually have capacity to do. I’ve enjoyed being involved in committees, that for me was what I enjoyed, some were CPE-oriented with creating a conference, and then the Taxation Committee just helps you stay on the forefront of the issues affecting the tax practice. I learned so much through these committees. The AICPA now does their Town Hall meetings and that’s been a great new resource for staying current on the profession and seeing what’s going on in the world of tax and the world of audits.

Something we didn’t have back when I was starting out was technology for attending meetings remotely. COVID-19 came along and changed the world. We didn’t do Zoom meetings before COVID. We didn’t have the technology to do it in our firm. Virtual meetings can help with participating in OSCPA committees, and also support work-life balance. And I think it can help you focus on the why, like, what is the goal of this in the first place? Now you can sort of reinterpret how you do things. And that helps you see that overall; things don’t have to be accomplished in the same way. Now, even if you’re not in the Portland area where the OSCPA offices are, you’re able to participate and be on committees and not have to give up part of your day to travel. And in that way, technology can open doors.

What’s exciting right now about being a CPA?
Being the client’s most trusted advisor. One of the things I like best about my job is when the phone rings, I don’t know what’s going to be on the other end. It’s a wide range of things, and I like that variety. People ask me all kinds of questions that are not necessarily accounting related, they just want business advice, they want personal advice. I enjoy that part of my job. With trusts and estates work, sometimes you're dealing with family members when they've lost a loved one, and it’s a very difficult time for them. And to be able to help hold their hand through that process and try to give them some comfort is very satisfying for me. Helping clients grow their business, helping clients thrive, this is also very satisfying.

That’s great to know that you love what you do. What kind of opportunities do you see on the horizon for the accounting profession? 
The scope of what CPAs do is broadening. The CPA exam has changed to involve technology. We’re frequently helping clients set up accounting software, accounting systems, maybe even helping them understand how to read their financial statements, which they have to do to keep their businesses thriving. There’s a lot of education and consulting for clients.

Is there anything about the stage you're in right now that you're really enjoying?
I like being a mentor. I like teaching. Right after I graduated from Willamette Law School, I taught at Willamette's MBA program for about ten years. Not only have I volunteered for the OSCPA but I’m a founding member of the Salem Police Foundation, which was created when there were budget cuts in Salem and a group of businesspeople wanted to support the local police department. I’ve been a board member for the Union Gospel Mission. They built a new men's mission here in Salem, and they used New Markets Tax Credits to get a lot of the funding. I was on that board and then someone told me, if you can do one New Markets Tax Credit project, you can do two. So, I helped Northwest Health Enterprises with building a medical clinic for low-income people that provided medical services, dental services, and mental health counseling. I sometimes find myself on five different charity boards at the same time. To the extent I achieve any type of work-life balance with my firm work, I tend to fill the gap with non-profit work! In all seriousness, I believe strongly in giving. I've had a successful career. The community has given me a lot, and I want to give back.

We’ve heard that when you do have free time, you have an interest in driving fast cars.
I will go to the track at PIR (Portland International Raceway) and drive my Porsche there. I've sometimes gone over to eastern Oregon with friends and done driving out there. Every year our family goes to the Indy races that come to Portland. We've been going to Austin, Texas for the Formula One races. The whole family has an interest. For our 35th wedding anniversary, my wife and I took our two kids to a four-day performance driving class down in Phoenix. That was really fun.

What else should people know about you?
I'm originally from Tennessee. I have a log cabin back in Tennessee that sits on land that belonged to my great-great-grandfather Kinner Hawkins. The logs were moved to this property by my dad and he reconstructed the cabin one log at a time. The logs were cut in 1790. My dad was born on the property next to where the cabin is now. My grandfather was a sharecropper with a fourth-grade education, and here I am with a dual license as both a CPA and an attorney. I try not to forget where I came from.

Anything you’re reading currently? 
I like spy novels and detective novels, I like Alex Cross novels. I’ll also read history or leadership books. I’m currently reading The Vineyard of Liberty by James MacGregor Burns; it goes from the 1780s up to the Civil War. And then there's a second volume that continues on.

Is there anything else you would want to say to OSCPA members as you begin your term as OSCPA Board Chair? 

I would remind people: it’s a great time to be a CPA. A lot of people out there need our help. Accounting is a great skill set to develop, to be able to help people in business or help individuals and families with their personal finances. I hope bright and talented people continue to join the profession and continue to stay in the CPA profession. It's a great way to make an impact. People working day to day might not realize what a difference they’re making all the time. For people who want to make an impact on the world, they can. They can help people every day.

Read more about our OSCPA Board of Directors.